Curse

Dean Harper · Apr 06, 2007, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

It's not just Mesmers. My Mesmer, Assassin and Paragon have become well dressed Xunlai Agents. They're hanging around long enough to be the last ones to finish GWEN, so their armor and crap can continue on in GW2. It's sad, because in PvE I get asked by the people I run with to bring my mesmer, but the second I try to find a pug it's like lol noob.

Yes, but that is a very common misconception of people who have never played a mesmer. They think: "That guy's a noob because he is playing a mesmer. Why wouldnt he play a class that is 'stronger' and more 'useful' in a group?" But the reality is, people who play mesmers can be the best players out there. Being a mesmer allows you to learn about other professions and find out what they are about in order to shut them down. Of course, there are those new players who think they are well developed enough to play a mesmer and make a bad impression on other players who then see all Mesmer players as noobs. But also contributing to this, the PvE problems created by Anet cause Mesmers to be even more ineffective and even less liked by the majority of the GW community. Again, as stated by Avarre, the PvE problem needs to be eliminated for our Profession to survive into the next expansion and into GW2.

Pat_vaynard · Apr 06, 2007, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Underdeveloped players don't do well with Mesmers. This is not a flame.

Realm of Fiery Doom · Apr 06, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

I agree with practically everyone on the thread that Mesmers are shunned. I think that Fast Casting definetly needs to get a boost (perhaps shorter recharge time as well?), and that on the whole the attitude of players in Guild Wars against Mesmers should be changed. But how?

Skill buffs.

P A L P H R A M O N D · Apr 06, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

This update confused me. Overall it was great, but the balances were weird. Mesmers have problems, and other classes have a much easier time of things. Im surprised that a mesmer combo was considered "overpowered" enough to be nerfed, when the other classes got great buffs, especially the Avatars for dervish. Ele's got some good buffs as well. Mesmer is my favorite class, I just dont understand why they get less and less powerful in small bits, while other classes seem to just get better. Rits were hit hard recently, but still.

October Jade · Apr 12, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

I don't often subject myself to pugging; for general PvE playing with heroes and henchmen suits me just fine. However, I have noticed that mesmers are essentially shunned from end-game areas like Urgoz and DoA. From the warm-fuzzies perspective, this seems inherently unfair...but it's not entirely the fault of the developers. Players experiment and try to extract the most efficient builds from the current skills available. Sometimes it just works out that a particular class gets shafted.

For example, think about how only three professions are regularly recruited in ToPK. It seems ludicrous, yet nobody questions the idea. It's just the way it is. People aren't interested in balance or class equity; they just want whichever skillbar it is that makes them rich the quickest.

Numerous other threads have discussed why mesmers aren't accepted in PvE. They don't have many effective AoE skills, they don't fit well in the 'trinity,' and the general populace is ignorant to how they benefit the group. In all likelihood, the only time other players notice the mesmer is when s/he interrupts an integral skill that would've made a significant swing in the battle. And everyone knows that rangers interrupt, too...why take a mesmer when you can have interruption AND damage?

I concur that mesmers could use some significant improvement, along with the other three pariah classes. I also like the idea of centering the improvement(s) in the Fast Casting line. This would reserve any benefits to actual mesmers without adding anything to all the */Me Echo posers. It's tricky, though...if FC were changed to affect recharge times, I have a feeling mesmers everywhere would find themselves even more pigeonholed than they already are. An entire profession would be reduced to little more than a means to spam Meteor Shower.

Oh, wait. That already happened.

Braggi · Apr 12, 2007, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by October Jade

It's tricky, though...if FC were changed to affect recharge times, I have a feeling mesmers everywhere would find themselves even more pigeonholed than they already are. An entire profession would be reduced to little more than a means to spam Meteor Shower.

Oh, wait. That already happened.

That's not this difficult - make it affect mesmer skills instead of any spell and it will work. Problem might be relation to existing stances.

Dean Harper · Apr 12, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat_vaynard

Underdeveloped players don't do well with Mesmers. This is not a flame.

Im not flaming, just stating facts.

=DNC=Trucker · Apr 13, 2007, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Like an assassin gains +1,+2,+3 energy at certain ranks of Crit strikes, I always thought mesmers should have something similar in FC. Every time you interrupt you get the energy. I know, not much...

IMO adding more AOE direct damage is dumb. Isn't that what an ele is for?

BSSuperman · Apr 13, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Ive just started a Mesmerette (love to watch her run) in Prophecies and Im gonna play the entire game through with her (with a faithful Guildie) So I admit from the start that I dont have a lot of experience with them yet.

IMO Mesmers are very powerful and are a class designed to block,deny and aggravate the opposition right?

Theres plenty of AoE spells for Mesmers: Hex Eater Vortex , Energy Surge , Cry of Frustration , Spiritual Pain , Epidemic , Hypochondria (reverse AoE ??) . . . . . Ok maybe 7 or so skills then. But the Mesmer isnt designed to deal damage... Ineptitude / echo anyone?? But they're not there to deal damage - they are there to nrg denial and interrupt - Although I do admit Im finding it V difficult to interrupt and My Mesmer Hero on my main character is laughing at me and my noob interupt powaz.

But its true that the Mesmer depends on hexing people and essentially giving them enough rope to hang themselves. I wub backfire he he he.

Div · Apr 13, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Mesmers being hated in PvE and loved in PvP. What else is new? Some professions are meant to be crappy in certain areas of the game...

Helcaraxe · Apr 13, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

the problem is that its not just certain areas of the game.... it's the entire game across all 3 campaigns.

Ishtar Serket · Apr 13, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

With the exception of certain missions (Unwaking Waters in Factions comes to mind), mesmers are never wanted in a party...

Mes can be the most powerful profession in the right hands but frequently most players that make one don't take the time to really read up on the subject regarding how to play the class. One thing that I've always suggested to new mesmers is to play most other classes first and get a feel for them. Learn what they do and what is vital to their builds usually. Then when you start up a mesmer, you'll know the skills and spells enemies are using (effective in pvp as well but not the subject of this thread) and know which ones you want to interrupt, etc. Its simple but it works.

Anyways, mesmers don't really need much in terms of AoE damaging spells. We're meant to shut down one enemy at a time (which admittedly is one reason mesmers are shunned in PvE since generally groups want to kill an enemy mob as fast as possible). One thing I have always suggested is moving both Arcane Echo and Echo to FC attribute. It'd definitely piss a lot of people that use those skills but it would also give a distinct advantage to a mesmer who can use that skill easily. One thing said here that I definitely agree with is FC also decreasing recharge times. Many mesmer skills take long enough to recharge that either the mob is dead or your group is. Cutting recharge times, especially for interrupts would make the mesmer profession as primary even more attractive.

Helcaraxe · Apr 14, 2007, 02:24 AM // 02:24

thats excellent idea with teh echo's Ishtar... also a variable duration would be nice based on your FC attribute. Maybe patch notes one day will include...

Arcane Echo: Moved to Fast Casting attribute and changed description to. "For 5...20 seconds if you cast a spell while under the effects of Arcane Echo then Arcane Echo is replace by that spell for 5...20 seconds."

Same thing for the elite version, this way 'echo' nukers wouldn't be able to take advantage of them.

And maybe something like this one day too

Fast Casting: Changed functionality to "For each point in fast casting spells you cast 2% faster and recharge 2% faster."

OR

Fast Casting: Changed functionality to "For each point in fast casting spells you cast activate 2% fast and whenever you are interrupted while casting a spell you gain 1 energy per 3 levels of Fast Casting.

Enix · Apr 16, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braggi

That's not this difficult - make it affect mesmer skills instead of any spell and it will work. Problem might be relation to existing stances.

No dood. Let it be all skills - Expertise works on Attack skills and touches, why shouldnt FC work on All Spells? Strength works on all attack stills. Spawning power works on Minions. Come on.

FC needs to have some sort of efficiency benefit. Every other Primary Attribute leads to greater efficency of the charecter. Faster Casting of spells dosent do jack considering everything is either not interruptable at all (1/4 cast spells) or highly interruptable (3 second casts).

Also, rangers are better interrupters than mesmers (BHA).

Dean Harper · Apr 17, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helcaraxe

thats excellent idea with teh echo's Ishtar... also a variable duration would be nice based on your FC attribute. Maybe patch notes one day will include...

Arcane Echo: Moved to Fast Casting attribute and changed description to. "For 5...20 seconds if you cast a spell while under the effects of Arcane Echo then Arcane Echo is replace by that spell for 5...20 seconds."

Same thing for the elite version, this way 'echo' nukers wouldn't be able to take advantage of them.

And maybe something like this one day too

Fast Casting: Changed functionality to "For each point in fast casting spells you cast 2% faster and recharge 2% faster."

OR

Fast Casting: Changed functionality to "For each point in fast casting spells you cast activate 2% fast and whenever you are interrupted while casting a spell you gain 1 energy per 3 levels of Fast Casting.

yeah, FC needs a real boost, its probably the one primary that does the leats in the game, besides Strength. The main point of this entire article is and the one posted by Avarre is that memsers need a major PvE buff. However, to me, in PvP, Memsers seem fine. I usually have no trouble getting into groups in HA, AB, and TA. Hopefully with the new PvE only skills and the 100 new other skills in GWEN, we will get what we have been asking for for a while now.